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 Post subject: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Apropos gang violence in our Country today, now becoming critical, the Police, as part of their determination to wipe it out have developed a list.

The list comprises details of all known members of gangs, and people who associate with them.

The usual crowd, including civil liberties groups, are up in arms in that such a list transgresses their civil liberties.

Civil liberties to go on stabbing and shooting people?

Why make it even harder for our police to act in our defence?


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 Post subject: Re: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:24 am 
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Dong wrote:
Apropos gang violence in our Country today, now becoming critical, the Police, as part of their determination to wipe it out have developed a list.

The list comprises details of all known members of gangs, and people who associate with them.

The usual crowd, including civil liberties groups, are up in arms in that such a list transgresses their civil liberties.

Civil liberties to go on stabbing and shooting people?

Why make it even harder for our police to act in our defence?


PS. And why should any group ever know about such lists until they be arrested?
Who grassed?


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 Post subject: Re: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:15 pm 
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cont. on page 273. . . .

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:01 pm
Posts: 4792
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ack-matrix

It starts out, "It turns out that appearing in a music video, or simply associating yourself with a particular type of music online, can land you on a database purporting to show “propensity for violence”. ...

So if you've ever sung Delilah at karaoke, you'd better have the number of a good lawyer in your back pocket.


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 Post subject: Re: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Yes! But that is just Guardianista speak, innit?

Common sense sees that the vast majority of this sort of crime is actioned by our black communities, and for communities read gangs.

Our police have to deal with it.

I want them to have every aid available in order for them to do their job of protecting us.
I am not persuaded by the revolt of the usual limp-handed in that a few names may appear on the matrix by mistake. That can always be corrected as necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:22 am 
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cont. on page 273. . . .

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:01 pm
Posts: 4792
Dong wrote:
Yes! But that is just Guardianista speak, innit?

Common sense sees that the vast majority of this sort of crime is actioned by our black communities, and for communities read gangs.

Our police have to deal with it.

I want them to have every aid available in order for them to do their job of protecting us.
I am not persuaded by the revolt of the usual limp-handed in that a few names may appear on the matrix by mistake. That can always be corrected as necessary.


Did you actually read the article?

While I can see that amongst people who equate entire communities with gangs, the kind of sense you mention might be common, the numbers don't actually crunch the way you suggest.

In any case, the article doesn't question common sense, it questions the amount and the nature of evidence used to put individuals under the kind of scrutiny that can seriously hamper life chances if wrongly directed. Unless the database is based on substantive evidence, the information becomes not so much an aid to our police as a dangerous diversion away from those who pose the most serious genuine threats.

Many factors separate those in authority, including the police, from the vast majority of young people. Age demographics on their own are enough to make their knowledge of youth and popular culture second or third hand. As a result their perception of threat is often woefully inaccurate and based on tragically laughable inferences.

In the meantime, even accusations of this nature, never mind actual prosecutions, don't just melt away. While it is possible to correct mistakes, many are not and even those that are can take years and leave behind blighted lives and communities.

After all, anyone who's been cold-called about 'your recent no fault accident' should support caution regarding information that is held on individuals. In this case the consequences of inaccuracy can be far more serious than occasional nuisance phone calls.


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 Post subject: Re: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 12:34 am 
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cont. on page 273. . . .

Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:01 pm
Posts: 4792
This article contains some interviews with ex-gang members which give a more substantial picture.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/gqm7 ... tories-820


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 Post subject: Re: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:10 am 
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I've tried to stay off this thread due to this hitting a little too close to home.

My first "gang" was the trade union by Dad belong to. Only a fool took them on and crossed a picket line.
My second "gang" was my local football club and their supporters.

Both wouldn't think twice about using violence and were well known for it.

I can understand why young people join gangs: scene of belonging and being part of group. Believing to some point you will not come to harm and be protected after joining one. It's a fool's bargain.

Gangs depend on fear and regularly use violence. Being a gang member puts you in more danger, not less. You just become a target for other gangs.

The smart move is to walk away.

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 Post subject: Re: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:42 am 
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Odin
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Wordsworth60 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/09/police-gang-lists-racist-black-matrix

It starts out, "It turns out that appearing in a music video, or simply associating yourself with a particular type of music online, can land you on a database purporting to show “propensity for violence”. ...

So if you've ever sung Delilah at karaoke, you'd better have the number of a good lawyer in your back pocket.

I read the Guardian’s report and forgive me if I’m wrong, but the “three quarters of those convicted of youth violence were white” doesn’t mention if they were in gangs. Not having the percentage of white to black youths across the cities in question, I’d wonder if that would break down around the same.. given that the police are targeting gangs, because of their propensity for violence and drugs amongst other things, this is just common sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 10:10 am 
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Stop labeling people [spank.gif]

Street gangs aren't that common and only operate in small areas. Foot soldiers of the main drug dealers.

Proving a person is a gang member is guilt by association only. [9n5.gif]

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 Post subject: Re: Gang violence matrix.
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:59 am 
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Guilt by association? A well trodden path, legally.
Thus, why should it not be used to help our beleaguered police force?
And where does the sexual offenders register feature in all this?


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